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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
00032455 - Closed w/o ActionBugpublic2019-06-16 17:06
ReporterWA9PIEAssigned ToWA9PIE 
Status closedResolutionno change required 
Summary0003245: Logbook freezes and crashes on startup
DescriptionSince I have been creating, deleting, and restoring logs, I began having problems where Logbook freezes and generates a report to Microsoft. I have also forced the creation of a couple dump files.
Steps To ReproduceI can't cause this to happen, so I don't have steps.
TagsNo tags attached.
TestingNot Started



2019-03-13 22:53

administrator   ~0007685

The DMP files have been located on Google Drive under "\Team Drives\HRD Software\Dumps\Mantis 3245"


2019-03-14 11:35

administrator   ~0007686

Two of the dump files are from build 202 (HRDLogbook.DMP and "HRDLogbook (2).DMP") and two are from build 203 ("HRDLogbook (3).DMP" and "HRDLogbook (4).DMP").

Debugging is a bit difficult because there's no crash, just a hang. The captured files are 64-bit dumps, so some aspects of execution aren't apparent.

The dumps all appear to have the same call stack on one thread, which has entered the Access database engine, then called the kernel's Sleep() function. That's pretty odd, but here's what I see:

0:000:x86> ~*kb

.  0  Id: 5f14.2700 Suspend: 0 Teb: 01c8e000 Unfrozen
 # ChildEBP RetAddr  Args to Child              
00 01efcae8 756e8feb 00000000 01efcb2c 8605abd8 ntdll_77ab0000!NtDelayExecution+0xc
01 01efcb50 756e8f8f 00000032 00000000 00000001 KERNELBASE!SleepEx+0x4b
02 01efcb60 55812758 00000032 0a457510 00000000 KERNELBASE!Sleep+0xf
03 01efcba4 5580972e 00001096 01efcc68 01efcc68 msjet40!System::AllocatePages+0x168
04 01efcbc0 55808d76 0a45752c 00000001 01efcc68 msjet40!PageDesc::WireCurrentPage+0x2e
05 01efcbe0 557ef0c5 078cbfd4 078ece08 00000001 msjet40!PageDesc::ReadPage+0xe6
06 01efcc04 5581af9c 078cbfd4 0000d4ad 00000001 msjet40!Database::ReadPage+0x75
07 01efcc34 5581b707 01efcc68 01efcc68 00000002 msjet40!TableMover::GetNextRow+0xcc
08 01efcc4c 557f693e 00000001 00000002 01efcc68 msjet40!TableMover::Move+0x97
09 01efcc78 557cc811 079713c8 14791380 00000001 msjet40!ErrIsamMove+0x6e
0a 01efcc8c 558109f6 079713c8 000007fa 00000001 msjet40!ErrDispMove2+0x41
0b 01efd64c 557cbfb6 079713c8 000007fa 147907e8 msjet40!ErrIsamCopyRecords+0xb76
0c 01efd674 5583c8e7 079713c8 000007fa 000007f5 msjet40!ErrDispCopyRecords+0x56
0d 01efd8dc 5583c1f6 079713c8 163781d8 00000000 msjet40!ErrMaterializeRows+0x1b8
0e 01efd93c 5583c581 079713c8 16370000 163781d8 msjet40!ErrJPIOpenSort+0x17c
0f 01efd960 5583578c 079713c8 16370000 1637ddc0 msjet40!ErrJPOpenSort+0x113
10 01efd990 558545ab 079713c8 00000409 01efd9c4 msjet40!ErrJPOpenRvt+0x177
11 01efda18 557cab84 16370000 01efda2c 0000001c msjet40!ErrExecuteQuery+0xb68
12 01efda60 75705fcf ffffffff 16370000 00000000 msjet40!ErrUtilVReallocSeg+0x14
13 07b396c0 00000000 ffffffff 00000000 ffffffff KERNELBASE!VirtualQuery+0x1f

In the dumps, the main thread isn't clearly indicated. I don't see any thread which has a WinMain-like entry point. This seems pretty bogus. I do see threads in the IP listener and the DX Cluster; all are waiting for work. But I don't see anything like a message pump or a a WinMain entry.

The main issue I notice, though, is that the version of the Access Database engine in use is almost twenty years old:

0:000:x86> lmDvmmsjet40
Browse full module list
start    end        module name
55790000 55918000   msjet40    (pdb symbols)          f:\mysymbolcache\msjet40.pdb\AC52DC0716BF42499778F345076B93C11\msjet40.pdb
    Loaded symbol image file: msjet40.dll
    Image path: C:\Windows\SysWOW64\msjet40.dll
    Image name: msjet40.dll
    Browse all global symbols  functions  data
    Timestamp:        Fri Jan  4 11:50:34 2019 (5C2FB90A)
    CheckSum:         00140CF6
    ImageSize:        00188000
    File version:     4.0.9801.8
    Product version:  4.0.9801.8
    File flags:       0 (Mask 3F)
    File OS:          40004 NT Win32
    File type:        2.0 Dll
    File date:        00000000.00000000
    Translations:     0000.04b0
    CompanyName:      Microsoft Corporation
    ProductName:      Microsoft (R) Jet
    InternalName:     MSJET40.DLL
    OriginalFilename: MSJET40.DLL
    ProductVersion:   4.00.9801.8
    FileVersion:      4.00.9801.8
    FileDescription:  Microsoft Jet Engine Library
    LegalCopyright:   Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp. 1993-1999

Customers should be running the newest version of the engine. Jet 4 was released in 1999.

While I don't have a smoking gun, it seems like one way to start would be to have the customer update to a current, supported version fo the Access runtimes.


2019-03-17 01:55

administrator   ~0007692

Last edited: 2019-03-17 02:00

View 2 revisions

#1 - I'm "the customer" in this case. I'm the one having the problem on a machine that I've been running each release on.

#2 - I've now got a customer complaint on this one. Here's the ticket:

This is a prospective customer.

I'll update a "current supported version of the Access runtime"... but I haven't changed anything or gone backwards with it. If this works, I'll make the same suggestion to the customer. (It doesn't happen every time.)

In other words... this is the same runtime we include in our build, right?


2019-03-17 02:09

administrator   ~0007693

And by the way... why don't we install the latest version of the Access Runtime (rather than the 2007 version... or Jet version whatever it is that hangs on my computer)? It would seem that we may have fewer problems like this if we moved to a more modern version of Access Runtime.


2019-03-17 10:42

administrator   ~0007694

Last edited: 2019-03-18 00:02

View 2 revisions

Thanks for the clarification. It's not always possible to tell who is reporting an issue, since copy and paste from tickets (for example) doesn't make it clear who the first person is.

Mantis 2827 tracks the older runtime being in setup.

Mantis 2099 tracks the fact that setup doesn't actually install or upgrade the Access runtime.

I haven't worked on these for a couple of different reasons. First, it's always seemed that some other high-priority issue has come up. Next, there's a lot of folk lore around ODBC on the team. Fr example, I recently learned that the support team is trained to install Access 2007 when customers have problems. I can't understand why they're not trained to install a current version of the run times. Until I could investigate that, I didn't want to make any changes.

The version of the Access run times in the minidump is very old; it is from Access 98, I believe. Access 2007 would install ACEODBC.DLL with a version number something like 12.xx.

The newest Access Runtime I know about is for 2013:

This redistributable is 212 megs in size, so it would more than double the size of the HRD download.

There appears to be a newer version of the Access Runtime for Office 2019, which is bundled with the Office 365 runtime kit:

At that link, I don't see a redistributable package; the package downloaded from the links there is a setup runner, which is only 5 megs ... but require an internet connection to successfully download the actual runtime.

Because modern Windows installs have the Access runtime built-in (for example, Windows 10 includes ODBCJT32.DLL with version 10.0.xx by default), it's not clear what the best process for installing the run times is.


2019-03-17 12:06

administrator   ~0007696

I wonder what other software makers are doing when they have similar needs.


2019-03-18 12:44

administrator   ~0007699

I'm not sure what needs you're asking about. I assume that other vendors debug just the same way that I am -- piecing together clues and dumps to try to find bad code and fix it. Do you think there's a better way to proceed?

For sure, this is a struggle. Aside from the dump files, there's precious little information provided in this report. I spent a couple of hours trying recreate the trashed call stack to see what more I could find. Here's as far as I got:

0:000:x86> k L=02aada78
 # ChildEBP RetAddr  
00 02aaca34 76f5c390 ntdll_776e0000!NtReadFile+0xc
01 02aada78 5579a9a9 KERNELBASE!ReadFile+0x90
02 02aada9c 558224ad msjet40!ErrUtilFreeSeg+0x9
03 02aadb7c 55824926 msjet40!ErrQEMCompileQuery+0x5df
04 02aadbd4 5582623d msjet40!ErrExecuteTempQuery+0x10e
05 02aadc04 559c8e9e msjet40!JetExecuteTempQuery+0x90
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.
06 02aadec0 559c6a1f odbcjt32!SQLEndTran+0x3ae
07 02aaded0 56e13f42 odbcjt32!SQLExecDirectW+0x8f
08 02aadefc 56e14159 odbc32!SQLExecDirectCover+0x24b
09 02aadf28 013ed312 odbc32!SQLExecDirectW+0xb9
0a 02aadf64 013ed181 HRDLogbook!CRecordset::PrepareAndExecute+0x2e
0b 02aadf94 0115a3bb HRDLogbook!CRecordset::Open+0xf0
0c 02aae1c4 0115903e HRDLogbook!CHRDLogbookView::ReloadNonCustom+0xfeb
0d 02aae260 011492a5 HRDLogbook!CHRDLogbookView::Reload+0x27e
0e 02aaecb8 0114accc HRDLogbook!CHRDLogbookView::LoadDatabase+0x1815
0f 02aaece0 013d9469 HRDLogbook!CHRDLogbookView::OnDatabase+0x5c
10 02aaedb0 013da56e HRDLogbook!CWnd::OnWndMsg+0x803
11 02aaedd4 013d57cf HRDLogbook!CWnd::WindowProc+0x2d
12 02aaee48 013d5f90 HRDLogbook!AfxCallWndProc+0xc6
13 02aaee68 7747635b HRDLogbook!AfxWndProc+0x34
14 02aaee94 7746729c user32!_InternalCallWinProc+0x2b
15 02aaef78 774667ef user32!UserCallWinProcCheckWow+0x3ac
16 02aaefb0 70bb5315 user32!CallWindowProcW+0x7f
17 02aaf038 70bb53b3 comctl32!CallNextSubclassProc+0x155
18 02aaf0b8 70bb50b1 comctl32!CallNextSubclassProc+0x1f3
19 02aaf114 7747635b comctl32!MasterSubclassProc+0xa1
1a 02aaf140 7746729c user32!_InternalCallWinProc+0x2b
1b 02aaf224 77466a4d user32!UserCallWinProcCheckWow+0x3ac
1c 02aaf288 77466713 user32!SendMessageWorker+0x1fd
1d 02aaf2b8 01201909 user32!SendMessageW+0x123
1e (Inline) -------- HRDLogbook!CWnd::SendMessageW+0x15
1f 02aaf458 0113cd55 HRDLogbook!CMainFrame::RestoreLayout+0xf29
20 02aaf940 018f9473 HRDLogbook!CHRDLogbookApp::InitInstance+0x20b5
21 02aaf958 01532e61 HRDLogbook!AfxWinMain+0x5f
22 (Inline) -------- HRDLogbook!invoke_main+0x1a
23 02aaf9a4 74d90179 HRDLogbook!__scrt_common_main_seh+0xf8
24 02aaf9b4 7774662d kernel32!BaseThreadInitThunk+0x19
25 02aafa10 777465fd ntdll_776e0000!__RtlUserThreadStart+0x2f
26 02aafa20 00000000 ntdll_776e0000!_RtlUserThreadStart+0x1b

The "OnDatabase" function is what loads a database in the Logbook. From the call stack, we can see that this call is happening right as the application starts up and tries to restore its layout -- it's trying to open the windows that were previously open, which leads it to try load one of the database shown in a Logbook database view.

From that point, the call into CRecordset to open the record set is completely normal. Nothing wonky is going on here; the database is simply being queried for all of the rows it has so that the view can be loaded into memory. The code hasn't yet started fetching individual rows -- it's just executing the query to start getting them back.

There's nothing here that's actionable for me: the application has called into ODBC to ask for rows, and they're either taking a long time to arrive, or the database engine is getting sick when trying to provide them. The query never returns, so there's no issue of the application getting sick on data that was returned -- the data isn't coming back in the first place. The involved code works correctly in every other situation where we use it, so we have to figure something about the user's database is to blame.

The original stack from my first post has frame addresses that fit in between frames 05 and 06 above, so we've gained a bit of insight ... but all we really know is that we're deep in the bowels of the ODBC / Access / Jet implementation. There's not much more I could do: even if I could piece together the stack, I'd be guessing at what the Access implementation was (or wasn't) doing when it got sick.


2019-03-19 15:33

administrator   ~0007709

This stack trace was reported at the Microsoft partner dashboard on 2019-02-21 against build It's the only stack for this bucket, but the bucket is about 3.8% of reported crashes.


Frame	Image	Function	Offset
0	ntdll	NtDelayExecution	0xC	
1	kernelbase	SleepEx	0x9B	
2	kernelbase	Sleep	0xF	
3	msjet40	System::AllocatePages	0x168	
4	msjet40	PageDesc::WireCurrentPage	0x2E	
5	msjet40	PageDesc::ReadPage	0xE6	
6	msjet40	Database::ReadPage	0x75	
7	msjet40	TableMover::GotoBookmark	0xEC	
8	msjet40	ErrIsamGotoBookmark	0x39	
9	msjet40	ErrDispReadAhead	0x48	
10	msjet40	ErrJPMoveBMP	0x250	
11	msjet40	ErrDispMove	0x41	
12	msjet40	ErrMaterializeRows	0x290	
13	msjet40	ErrJPIOpenSort	0x17C	
14	msjet40	ErrJPOpenSort	0x113	
15	msjet40	ErrJPOpenRvt	0x177	
16	msjet40	ErrExecuteQuery	0xB68	
17	msjet40	Table::~Table	0x193	
18	msjet40	ErrSetValcolSortinfo	0x7C	
19	msjet40	PPIGenSortValcols	0x63	
20	msjet40	CopyQgrefJpref	0xAE	
21	msjet40	PostProcessor	0x2AB	
22	msjet40	ErrQEMCompileQuery	0x5DF	
23	msjet40	JetExecuteTempQuery	0x90	
24	odbcjt32	SQLInternalExecute	0x71C	
25	odbc32	SQLExecDirectCover	0x257	
26	odbc32	SQLExecDirectW	0xBD	
27	hrdlogbook		0x29FDF2	
28	hrdlogbook		0x29FC61	
29	hrdlogbook		0x6DFE9	
30	hrdlogbook		0xB10EB	
31	hrdlogbook		0x78AA90	
32	kernel32	BaseThreadInitThunk	0x24	
33	ntdll	__RtlUserThreadStart	0x2F	
34	ntdll	_RtlUserThreadStart	0x1B	

This just shows that there are other instances of this hang, and reaffirms that I got a decent call stack from the dumps. Still nothing I can take action on just yet.


2019-03-28 17:12

administrator   ~0007789

I think you said you were going to try the newer Access runtimes; and also ask the customer to do the same.

What were the results of that test?


2019-04-18 14:48

administrator   ~0007871

I'm using the 32-bit version of Access Runtime 2013.

I'll try moving to the 2106.


2019-04-26 11:00

administrator   ~0007892

Above, we said we'd get the customer to try configuring the data source to use newer Access drivers. WA9PIE said they'd try newer Access drivers, too.

What were the results of using the newer versions of Access?


2019-06-16 17:06

administrator   ~0008101

I had the customer install the 32-bit Access 2013 Runtime... create a new database... and restore the log from backup to that database.

No recurrence of the problem.

Closing it. No change required.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-03-13 22:46 WA9PIE New Issue
2019-03-13 22:53 WA9PIE Note Added: 0007685
2019-03-13 22:53 WA9PIE Assigned To => K7ZCZ
2019-03-13 22:53 WA9PIE Status new => assigned
2019-03-14 11:35 K7ZCZ Note Added: 0007686
2019-03-14 11:35 K7ZCZ Assigned To K7ZCZ => WA9PIE
2019-03-17 01:55 WA9PIE Note Added: 0007692
2019-03-17 01:55 WA9PIE Assigned To WA9PIE => K7ZCZ
2019-03-17 02:00 WA9PIE Note Edited: 0007692 View Revisions
2019-03-17 02:09 WA9PIE Note Added: 0007693
2019-03-17 10:42 K7ZCZ Note Added: 0007694
2019-03-17 12:06 WA9PIE Note Added: 0007696
2019-03-18 00:02 K7ZCZ Note Edited: 0007694 View Revisions
2019-03-18 12:44 K7ZCZ Note Added: 0007699
2019-03-19 15:33 K7ZCZ Note Added: 0007709
2019-03-28 17:11 K7ZCZ Assigned To K7ZCZ => WA9PIE
2019-03-28 17:11 K7ZCZ Assigned To WA9PIE => K7ZCZ
2019-03-28 17:11 K7ZCZ Assigned To K7ZCZ => WA9PIE
2019-03-28 17:12 K7ZCZ Status assigned => feedback
2019-03-28 17:12 K7ZCZ Note Added: 0007789
2019-04-18 14:48 WA9PIE Note Added: 0007871
2019-04-18 15:09 WA9PIE Project 3 - Current Dev List => 1 - Backlog
2019-04-18 15:10 WA9PIE Priority normal => low
2019-04-25 14:32 WA9PIE Assigned To WA9PIE => K7ZCZ
2019-04-25 14:32 WA9PIE Priority low => normal
2019-04-25 14:32 WA9PIE Project 1 - Backlog => 3 - Current Dev List
2019-04-26 10:58 K7ZCZ Assigned To K7ZCZ => WA9PIE
2019-04-26 11:00 K7ZCZ Note Added: 0007892
2019-06-16 17:06 WA9PIE Status feedback => closed
2019-06-16 17:06 WA9PIE Resolution open => no change required
2019-06-16 17:06 WA9PIE Note Added: 0008101
2019-06-16 17:06 WA9PIE Project 3 - Current Dev List => 5 - Closed w/o Action